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biciklanto
Shkhara
Status: Gathering Kudos

Strava leaderboards for Queen of the Mountain & King of the Mountain are stale, and many of them hold absolutely untouchable records made by unusual participants in events. (a good example is a pro peloton riding through the local hillclimb with a favorable tailwind — no amateur will ever be in the top-10 again.)

My request is an all-time leaderboard, and to make KOM/QOM awards annual. You were the fastest this year? Perfect! Your name is the one that will appear as KOM on the segment. As an added benefit, there could be an additional section of the Trophy Case for winning QOM/KOM trophies for a year.

This would freshen up leaderboards on many of the world's most important and major segments, making them more accessible and reigniting competition each year, rather than relegating the leaderboards to yesteryear or having to filter to find the "This Year" results (which just isn't as exciting).

48 Comments
usr
Pico de Orizaba

"but it got removed (not entirely sure why)."

That january was a bit of a joke, it's just not a particularly good idea without a rolling window.

And a rolling window handing out trophies to activities months after they happen because some other activity just timed out would also have some dowsides because it lacks the "emotional connection" of right when it's uploaded. It's tolerable when that happens in exceptional situations (e.g. an athlete pulling all their data) but it should not be routine.

A compromise might be a multi year window (e.g. four years, like the olympics) rolled only at year's end. A december ride would compare to almost four years, a january ride would compare to three years and some. (also see this comment, I'd add a little color by making it seasonal as well)

anchskier
Denali

@goodingn - Strava does have a "season best".  Any of the leaderboards can be filtered for "this year" to see who has put up the best time of the year so far.  You can further sort it to show just your own activities if you want to see your personal results compared to themselves.

goodingn
Mt. Kenya

@anchskier- Thanks, but clicking through each of the segments, one by one, checking a pro-feature leaderboard, each ride, hunting for a season's best, isn't as incentivising as a gold/bronze medal in the activity feed.  Notwithstanding the inability to do that to other people's activities to see their season's best.  And, how otherwise will your followers know you've been improving?

usr
Pico de Orizaba

@anchskier if your mentioning of "season best" was referring to my  mention of "seasonal" the post before: what I meant there was "seasons" as in spring/summer/autumn/winter. I believe that this would be nice as well. And because trophy inflation is certainly something that strava needs to keep in mind as a potential problem, I'd suggest combining them, a single category for seasonal (s/s/a/w) and non-eternal could solve both without too much inflation.

anchskier
Denali

@usr - How would you determine when a "season" starts and ends?  The weather during any season varies a ton in any one place from one year to another.  You could go strictly by date, but that would just be arbitrary and wouldn't mean anything with regards to what conditions are like.  "Trophy inflation" is definitely an issue in the overrall picture.  I am definitely not one of the "everyone gets and award for everything" kind of people.  When you start seeing a trophy for pretty much everything, the value of a trophy goes way down.  As it is, if I see a trophy on my activity or someone else's activity, I know it was a significant thing and worth noting.  

goodingn
Mt. Kenya

"When you start seeing a trophy for pretty much everything"- the issue here is there are currently no trophies available to 'returning' athletes.

Further, in the 2015 trophies, they were outlined only- they were 'hollow' trophies.  The irony is lovely, but it was fine really, you could easily see 'real' trophies from 'hollow' trophies 🙂  But, to returning athletes, they mean something; they are real achievements, we are working hard and getting fitter.  Currently, there is no recognition of this effort 😞

Trevorhurt
Mt. Kenya

I would also like an "APR" an annual personal record for each segment, give us some target and reward for efforts so far this year, even if we can't replicate achievements of the past!

Trevorhurt
Mt. Kenya

Could we have in addition to segment "PR" a segment "APR". An annual PR, i.e. fastest time of this segment this year!

This would give more opportunities to identify and be rewarded for recent beats, even if we can't beat our all time beats of previous years.

zecanard
Kilimanjaro

One possible solution would be to only keep K/QoMs and CRs from the previous calendar year. This solves a number of issues:

  1. Adopts the concept of a seasonal leaderboard, keeping results fresh, encouraging more athletes to compete, and expiring old records that may have been achieved when the terrain looked completely different or under exceptional circumstances.
  2. Doesn’t lead to records disappearing mid-season, as would happen with a rolling window. The records are set for the entire calendar year.
  3. Avoids January spam, since records would still be spread across the entirety of the previous year. In fact, some records may still not be beaten the entire season. Strava could further recognize anyone who maintains an unbeaten record through two seasons with a historical K/QoM/CR.

Of course the all-time/historical leaderboard would persist, but you’d have to click-through to view it. The main one we would compete against would be the seasonal leaderboard. Or it could be configured similar to the current Default Leaderboard View setting.

Either way, every platform with a competitive ladder has some form of seasonal reset to maintain user engagement and competition, so Strava needs to follow suit. I’m sure something similar could be done for PRs as well as monthly Challenges too. The possibilities are endless. You only need to look at the recency bias of Local Legends to see how keeping records fresh can make competition more fun and engaging.

zecanard
Kilimanjaro

I support something like this, but it may get merged with this existing Idea.

dk
Shkhara

I'm with Jan_Mantau, a world record is a world record until someone breaks that record. This should also apply to Strava segments. Anyone can create their own segments anywhere in the world, even where there are no pro athletes competing. Resetting segments just because others aren't able to perform well goes against the idea of leaderboards, then you just have to invest more time in your training if you want to get a KOM/QOM.

Komkommer
Mt. Kenya

I'm not for this, I'd rather break a 10 year old record (happened last week actually) and feel good about destroying it. My suggestion, try harder cause records are made to be broken.

K9
Pico de Orizaba

Make it a rolling year: every day the effort is pegged against the last 365 days. That way it encompasses all seasons etc. for the last year.

For the current KOM this motivates them to keep working as opposed to rest on their laurels, and for upcoming competitors gives them a chance.

Also will be a more realistic reflection of changing trail conditions for MTB segments. There are KOMs that were set when the trail was new and buff that are impossible to ever achieve now as the trail has evolved or been rerouted.

 

 

KevinUptain
Shkhara

This is important. On one of my favorite trails 16 of the top 20 times are 8 years old or more. The trail has changed a lot since then. Maybe a way toggle between the last 3-5 years and all-time. 

Salespunk
Mt. Kenya

I have an idea on how to update KOM's to drive more engagement across the platform as well as make it more enjoyable.  The idea is create a KOM/FKT split where KOM's are more ephemeral.  The problem with the current KOM format is that it doesn't account for changing trail conditions, roadway changes, weather etc.  An example is this segment;

https://www.strava.com/segments/5940262?filter=overall

They recently added multiple roundabouts to this section of road.  There are 44K attempts on the segment, the KOM is likely a data error or bus draft and most of the top 10 times are from 2016 or earlier.  Mountain bike segments are even more affected since the trails degrade over time, receive maintenance making them faster/slower, etc.

https://www.strava.com/segments/3479412?filter=overall

This is an example of a very popular trail where most of the top 10 has not changed since 2014.  There have been multiple changes in routing, trail work, erosion, etc that has made the trail significantly slower than it used to be.

Here is my proposed solutions.  Previously Strava tried to change KOM's to be annual.  It was a good thought, but poorly executed since it reset on January 1st meaning that the early KOM's were just whomever rode them early.  Therefore getting a KOM wasn't tough or even relevant until mid year sometimes.  I believe the solution is to go to a rolling 365 or 730 days.  This would ensure that fast times stay on the board and every KOM would be an achievement.  It would also correct for changing conditions or things like car drafting etc.  It would also slowly remove data errors naturally from the segments.

In response to those want to see permanent KOM's, switch to an FKT leader board.  First a Strava KOM is truly an FKT since it is only the known times.  Second an arbitrary number of people could be posted on the FKT board, say top 1% plus anyone who posted a top 10 KOM time.  If someone sets a time within the FKT it could be recognized via a special badge and if they set a top 10 KOM (within the last 365 days rolling say) they could earn two badges on a single segment.

IMO this would drive significantly more user engagement since chasing a Top 10 KOM time would actually become relevant again while also still recognizing the fastest overall times via an FKT badge/leader board.