Force activity as "ebike" when chosen gear is an ebike

[Méline]

Segments are a big feature of Strava and I think everything should be done to keep them as legit as possible. However I often see people riding ebikes but don't know/care about setting the correct type of their activity once uploaded. Since it defaults to classic bike (non assisted), it leads to pollution of the leaderboards with performances achieved only thanks to the assistance. 

To address this issue I suggest the following :  

• Make segment leaderboards accessible only to rides with a selected "gear" (bike)
• Make ebike an option of the gear setup : it is either an ebike or it is not. No one seriously rides an ebike with the motor turned off 100% of the time, setting it per-ride makes no sense.
• Use the ebike (on or off) flag of the selected gear (bike) to set the correct activity type upon upload (bike or ebike). 
• If the gear is changed on an existing activity, flag it accordingly (ebike or regular).
• If the user want's to change an existing gear from "ebike" to "classic bike", at least ask for a solid confirmation as this is most likely someone trying to be outsmart the system...

The idea behind this is to not rely on the user's good will to set the correct activity type for each upload. It would make things automatic, given the initial action of creating the gear. If none is selected/created, then we can assume that the user does not care that much about performance, and has no interest in leaderboards anyways.

In the end both ebikes and regular bikes segment leaderboards would make more sense to people who actually care about them, without making things any harder for users.

P.S I have nothing against ebikes, they're fantastic but deserve their own separate leaderboards as in any bike race allowing both types of bikes !

[anchskier]

@holstein13 - you can see your segment results and compare your segment times when you post your rides as ebike rides. You just need to create ebike segments. It is really easy to do.  Once you create an ebike segment, when you post your ride as an ebike ride, it will show up on the ebike segment leaderboard.  Then, you can post your rides as ebike rides and won’t have to make them all private.  

[holstein13]

That sounds pretty cool.  But I like the segments that already exist.  Can I have Strava just duplicate all the segments I could possibly ride into e-bike segments?  I don't really want to waste time creating all new segments for no reason.  Do I have to indicate the start and stop positions of each segment?  That sounds time-consuming.

[holstein13]

I just thought about this further and don't see how an "e-bike segment leaderboard" makes any sense for me.  Every e-bike is different, with different settings, torque, wattage, and range.  The results would be meaningless.

I just want to see my segments and how I'm comparing them on a day-by-day basis using the same equipment in the same setting.  I don't want to appear on anyone else's leaderboard.

[anchskier]

@holstein13 - just trying to suggest a method so you could post your rides without having to make them all private.  Making segments is pretty simple once you have done a couple.  You can make them exactly where you want them.  The ebike community where I am at are pretty active on Strava and do a good job of creating segments that are almost identical to the non-ebike segments.  Users can chose whether they want to compare to other e-bikes or just against themselves.  You can make a segment private so you will just show up against yourself and not have to worry about others showing up.  

[holstein13]

I'll give it a shot.  Thanks.

[Тімоті_Перріш]

This can be done if the previous default gear update can be modified to incorporate my suggestion:

https://communityhub.strava.com/t5/what-s-new/new-set-default-gear-by-sport/td-p/9728

[SpAwN_gUy]

The Op pretty much sums up my ideas. 

I can't select ebike ride in fitbit. I'd like Strava to do that for me, as it known the type of my default gear. 

I even started thinking about building a webhook and hosting it myself. But wouldn't it be cheaper for strava to have fewer external traffic if nerds like me will start doing this? 

Also the subscription price raise should cover these costs, innit? 

[lopey66]

there has been an update, below is a screen capture on web-browser, where you can select the default sport for the bike.

choose settings -> Gear -> (select bike) -> edit bike

what I have noticed is that I can only apply this to ONE bike and it becomes the default sports, ideally each bike should have those definitions, it's a step in the right direction.

[Jan_Mantau]

@lopey66 For the idea from this thread the update is exactly in the wrong direction. The idea was setting the activity to ebike if an ebike is choosen as a gear, not the other way around.

Now there isn't even a single standard bike anymore so it's got impossible to implement making every ride automatically an ebike ride if the standard bike is an ebike.

[fifty]

This segment https://www.strava.com/segments/20931000?filter=overall is one example of e-bikers taking over the leaderboards. At least the guy, at the moment placed 2nd, calls the ride "e-bike ride".

Possible solutions could also be:

• if someone gets a KOM and is a new user: ask him if he/she didn't ride the e-bike
• if someone usually needs 10 times longer for any segment on multiple rides and then on the next ride gets all uphill KOMs something could be fischy
• compare speeds graphic (e-bike mostly look different the non e-bike speeds)
• force KOM leaders to use a powermeter. (yes counts also for pro riders)

[lopey66]

@Jan_MantauI have spent a few minutes recording a couple activities, the Default Ride is defined in your recording device, in my case I have a Garmin Edge530 device, I edited my activity profile & set the default ride type to be an eBike.
Secondly before pressing the save button on my edge, I also have an option to change ride type to another such as indoor.

below are images and proof that I recorded an activity as an eBike automatically (CarbonOne default eBike in gear).

[darinminter]

Strava should be training AI models to search aggregate data for anomolies. There are numerous ways to accomplish. For example, I have a cycling acquaintance who has been riding regular bike for years over same segments. He is in his 60s so we can assume his VO2 and other determinants will not improve substantially. Now he is riding an eBike, not tagging itnas such, and placing on KOM lists that he never would have, all while displacing others who deserve to be on them.  This is absurd. You can train models to identify these and other anomalies without ever going into an individual user's history until after the infraction has been discovered.  

You can also establish benchmarks according to % inclines in terrain data mapped to w/kg benchmarks and flag where these are out of range.  There are literally hundreds of models you can design and run. 

Strava is in the data business.  I woul expect that it has employed a sufficient amount of data science talent to be managing the business. This is all about integrity, which much of the community has come to rely on from the platform, and it is on Strava to fix this, as it will comtinue to get worse over time.

[lopey66]

@darinminter you could ask your 60+ friend to define their profile on their head unit(Garmin device?) as an ebike as that is where the problem is, once that is set all future activities uploaded to Strava, Garmin wahoo sites will have the correct bike type

[darinminter]

@lopey66 sure. That is expected of anyone and everyone who uses the platform. However, he absolutely knows better already. As a friend put it, "he gains relevance from people who comment how good he is." The guy has a personal problem in that he has to cheat and he is okay with it.  Cheaters are the exception, and the exception is part of the norm, statistically speaking.  Meanwhile, one person is contaminating segments that we all ride and Strava's integrity then comes into question.  

Strava, as a business, needs to pay attention to this.  The methods exist to identify cheaters. 

I'll share an anecdote. I have three friends who run bikes shops who tell me that their customers comment on this with them and are frustrated.  If that many people are talking about it, you can bet it is the "tip of the iceberg" and Strava has a real and growing problem.  People rely on the data from these KOMs.  It is an inherent and important feature of the platform.  I can tell you personally that I question every KOM I see now.  Cheaters are part of the norm. You can't rely on everyone all the time to act with integrity.  This sort of thing - the loss of trust - ultimately devalues the platform.  

@strava! Pay attention. This is important. You need to fix this. 

[lopey66]

@darinminter I have been on strava since 2009, I have seen people cheat in lot of sort of ways, one guy back dated (manual) entries to the 1970's and he has the alltime distance record, this article is about a friend & the other guy getting all the KOMs is a collegue of another friend https://mpora.com/road-cycling/addicted-strava-viral-thread-shows-road-cyclist-australia-lose-plot-c... previously with strava api another guy created a KOM Defender report which you would receive an email weekly (see below picture of 2016 email) which had suspecious segments as like you have suggested from segments you have done in that week and from there you could check & flag the activities, cheating happens in all sorts of form and only when you take some interest you start to see the anomolies and I have taken time to analyse very short segments.

For example a rider has 2 devices one a vivo fit watch(smart recording only) and the other garmin edge(records every second) after the activity the rider checks both activities and notices he has a KOM with vivo watch and 2 secs faster than the edge and 1 sec faster than the previous KOM, he then deletes his edge activity, is that cheating ? I can say yes techically as how the data has been recorded and matched and that really comes down to the device which is the real problem and strava could actually do furher work to interpolate datapoints in activities and thats when the GPS data is of reasonable quality and accuracy. I know my edge530 has GPS drift and is not accurate as my older edge510 and that is due to the GPS chipset, I have activties showing I have drifted of the edge of a mountain on a decent because I was doing high speeds on the corners.