Separate categories for groups/pelotons and TT bikes

[JustinJones]

Given that riding in a group or on a TT bike artificially enhances performance, why doesn't Strava separate those riding in a group into their own category for segments (it already knows when you have ridden with someone else) so that it's more of a level playing field for those riding solo and, in a similar vein, give those on a TT bikes their own category to select...like eBikes? Riders in a group or on a TT bike end up holding a pace at least 20% above their performance on a normal bike, or when riding solo...it doesn't enable performance comparisons against themselves (what's the point in having a PR on a segment if you did it as part of a five-man chaingang or on a TT bike?) or against other riders. 

[Jeter]

Many of my personal bests come on group rides. Riding those same routes solo, however, I don't even come close to them. It would be nice to select the kind of ride you're doing for that day (solo vs group), and perhaps have a separate set of statistics for each type of ride. That way my personal bests on a group ride aren't jumbled together with my personal bests on a solo ride. This is also important for overall leaderboards, which do show the fastest riders, but don't show whether they were aided by being in a group ride.  

Thanks for your consideration. 

[Jeter]

Group ride times are much faster than solo ride times. Yet there is no way to tell if a Leaderboard time was accomplished on a group or solo. The Leaderboard then can be very deceiving, mixing fast times accomplished on group rides with slower times done solo. 

A 'Ride Type' indicator would be nice feature, allowing the cyclist to select which type of ride they took that day, group or solo. The Leaderboard could also have a toggle allowing users to switch between group ride personal bests and solo ride personal bests. This would remove the inaccuracy of combining all ride times, whether group and solo, onto one Leaderboard.

[paulo67]

I'd like to suggest that road bike activities differentiate between solo rides and group rides.  This is important when it comes to Leaderboards and KOMs.  A solo rider simply cannot compete with individuals posting numbers when they were riding in group running a paceline.  It's understating the work and accomplishment of a solo rider capturing the #1 position on a leaderboard - or setting a new KOM - only to lose it to another athlete that is riding that same segment in the slipstream of a club group or race peloton (i.e., it's not an apples-to-apples comparison if a KOM is set by an athlete sheltered from headwind).

I personally would like to track my data that way as well.  I would benefit, and I think the entire cycling community using Strava would benefit from tracking Solo data and Group ride data separately.

[anchskier]

This has been discussed in a few different threads here.  There are a few problems with this idea.  The biggest is that there is just no way to accurately determine if a rider is solo or as part of a group.  The GPS accuracy is not nearly good enough to determine this by itself.  Strava's algorithm for whether you rode "with" someone is terrible for something like this.  How would you ever know if there were others riding with someone who didn't record their ride in Strava in the first place, so no way to see if there were others riding?  What if someone was only slightly ahead of the group hammering a segment solo, but the others were just seconds behind them, not helping in any way, but still part of the "group" for most of the ride?  The other big problem is even if you could determine solo vs. group from here on out with some new feature, you would never be able to go back and apply that to the 10+ years of historical data.  

[paulo67]

I hear you anchskier and thanks for commenting!  A couple of follow-up thoughts on it though.  I agree that it may be hard to determine if someone is riding solo or in a group but, in my experience with the flyby function, that GPS data is pretty darn good.  I use flyby to review group rides and crit races and in the final 50m sprints, I can still see that I'm losing by 3 feet 🙂 

Otherwise, I think the honor system has it's place - not any different than trusting someone to log their eBike rides as an eBike activity.  Using the honor system, someone hammering the front of a group ride could subjectively, and guided by his/her own character, mark it as a solo ride as they see fit.  I think the overall value of making the distinction would outweigh the scenarios that may make such a function difficult or carry with it a few inconsistencies.

Lastly - yes...fully acknowledge that if such a distinction could be made and determined to be in the best interests of the Strava community, it would be a hard cut over in your data set.

[anchskier]

Keep in mind that a vast majority of riders don't even bother to identify what bike they are using, yet you would be asking that all users identify whether it was a solo or group ride.  Another issue is that what if some part of a ride was solo while others parts were as a group?  I often go riding solo and then either incedentally or intentionally join a group for a portion of the ride.  I may hammer a segment or two solo and then be riding in a pace line with the group later.  I think there are just far too many reasons that trying to separate them would not be practical.  

[susuncorda]

In cycling, we all know the HUGE difference between riding alone or in a group (relays), not to mention the difference between riding alone and racing in a big peloton pack.

So it is very demotivating and complete nonsense that a single rider's effort comes out in the same classification as races (sometimes professional) and relay group efforts. 

Because it is obviously unfair and it is impossible to fight such an unequal battle.
If something is impossible, it cannot be a challenge or motivation for us.

Being that the segments are one of the premium features that Strava relies on to get people to subscribe, I don't understand how after years of asking for this separation of classifications they still refuse to do it.

I'm sure it's not technically difficult to implement, given that it's been detecting group activity for years.
Even we users could mark or place a tag on these activities, since we all see that in a classification several riders appear on the same day and at the same time, almost in the same segment time, evidently it has been a group.

[Jan_Mantau]

That was many times discussed here and it always led to nothing because:

-Solo ride doesn't mean you rode alone (not everyone records on Strava)

-Group ride doesn't mean you had an advantage on a segment because it can be that you were front or the others were to far before you

- There are other issues with it like crosswinds negating slipstreams, older rides would be favored because of fewer Strava members then and solo rides can have the same advantage as group rides due to tail winds or motorized vehicles before the rider

[Jane]

Hello.

We wanted to let you know that your idea submission from August, 2022 regarding separate categories for groups and TT bikes has received little support from the Community, and will not be added to our Product Roadmap in the foreseeable future.  The idea submission will be archived.  

Please note that your feedback is valuable to Strava. As stated in our Community Idea Guidelines, we receive many idea submissions each week, and realistically, there may be various reasons that prevent us from including an idea on our Product Roadmap.  

We want to thank you for taking the time to submit your idea and we look forward to your continued contributions to the Strava Community.  

[safian]

It would be great to have separate leaderboards for group rides and solo rides. Currently, many top times and trophies are achieved during races or group rides, making it difficult to compete when riding solo. A separate classification would allow for a more balanced competition for solo riders.

Adam.

[SallyT]

Great idea. I am a woman,  riding in a group with men, and almost every ride I take trophies. The lack of a 'group ride' flag discriminates against all solo riders, but against women cyclists especially.

Would much prefer a separate board, or the ability to de-trophy myself on these rides! 

[anchskier]

@SallyT - If you want your group rides to not count on the leaderboards, all you have to do is make them private.  As far as a group ride flag, it is described above why that just isn't realistic.  There isn't a good way to determine whether someone was actually riding in a group or solo unless EVERYONE noted it accurately with EVERY ride they do.  Strava cannot detect group rides accurately and, even if they could, would not be able to determine if the group actually was such that the rider was helped on a segment.

[susuncorda]

The other day I was notified that I lost a KOM/RC.
It was on this segment: https://www.strava.com/segments/10463534

What happened is that a race passed by there and then it will NEVER EVER be an entertaining and "possible" challenge for cyclists who ride alone every week in this area.

Now it is impossible (unless you are Remco Evenepoel) to get a top 10 position in this segment, there is no point in using Strava if you were interested in leaderboards for motivation.

[KBowen]

Agree with @anchskier that this is part of the fun! Some segments have taken me years of studying wind direction, approach, time of day, and whether or not I need to enlist a pace bunny - all part of the fun!

I also do not think group rides skew the playing field that much. Yes, they obviously move at a faster pace, but typically for longer rides. They're likely not doing an all-out smash on one 2 mile segment.

I live in an area with an Ironman and a GranFondo on the main road. Yes, it's really hard to compete with pros, semi pros, and peletons on the leaderboard, but certainly not impossible since I'm just pegging off one segment at a time while they were out for a big day in the saddle. Plus, when you do earn the QOM solo, it's that much sweeter.

[Apix]

After starting to ride with some faster groups these days, I’m blowing all of my solo personal records away.  It would be an excellent feature to be able to categorize (could be automatic with existing group feature) solo efforts and group efforts so I can still chase PRs if I’m riding by myself.