Separate Leaderboard for different types of bikes - mountain, gravel, road etc.

[KeepingQuiet]

I feel as though there should be a category and koms based on type of bike chosen in profile. EBike, Mtn Bike, Gravel, Road. 

I am getting an ebike and the comments have already started about if my ride posts will be valid since it may take a KOM of another rider. Until fixed I will keep these rides private so I do not get any negative comments but adding the category would remove the issue. 

[Corinschl]

It would be more fair if different cycling activities such as road biking, gravel biking, and mountain biking were separately evaluated in segments, as like running and hiking. Otherwise, it's impossible for a mountainbikers to ride the segments faster than a gravel bike. Please consider separate ratings. Thanks 🙂

[Jan_Mantau]

@Corinschl  You can vote for this in the existing idea https://communityhub.strava.com/t5/ideas/separate-leaderboard-for-different-types-of-bikes-mountain/...

But be aware that there are several historical and practical reasons listed that this shouldn't be implemented. One of them is that it's your own decision to not ride the fastest possible bike type on easy surfaces.

[Corinschl]

Not everyone has a Gravelbike and there are Mountainbike Marathons with easy surfaces where you only ride on easy gravel roads and nevertheless you can't come to the race with your gravelbike. I think it would only be fair, if every activity has a separate rating. 

[Corinschl]

It would only be fair, if we separate all the types of bikes, so the mountainbikers can go for their KOM‘s and the gravelbikers can not fake this KOM and get their own KOM‘s. I think everyone knows which bike is a roadbike and which one is a gravel bike. Its like the same with hiking and running. Its nearly but not exactly the same when you run or go on mountains for example. The issue with old datas is no reason because if we want to change something and make it better, so we have to start somewhere. And you can flag the old KOM, when you nearly get one and so the datas will be corrected on some segments. Therefore we are all responsible to maintain the segments 😉

[anchskier]

@Corinschl - This is a bad idea.  You say people should just flag the old rides (ones that were 100% legit when they were earned) because they were on a different type of bike?  Makes zero sense.  

You have to realize that only a small fraction of people even say what bike they are using on a given ride, much less go to the extent of noting what the specific type of bike it is.  That is all very recent stuff and lots of people aren't going to suddenly start accurately describing what their bikes are.  Also, in today's bike world, there isn't a clear delineation of what the difference between certain types of bikes are.  You say it is obvious what the difference between a gravel and road bike are?  Please explain.  More and more wheel/tire combinations are blending between the two, road tires getting wider and adding some amount of "tread", while gravel tires are getting slicker.  Same with the overlap of gravel and mountain bikes.  A lot of people I know use the same bike for gravel and road or gravel and mountain just by switching out the wheel set they are using, so even if they were indicating what bike they were using each ride in strava, it wouldn't necessarily be accurate to the surface they are riding on.  

If you tried to split up the leaderboards by bike type, they would be worthless.  There would be so much incorrect data throughout that it wouldn't be worth looking at.  Part of biking is determining what the best equipment is for a particular activity and, in strava's case, segment.  

[sdfgsd]

For me, it's simple; I want to see the bike type on the leaderboard. I ride MTB mainly, but I also ride segments that are mainly used by roadies—all good. When I look at the leaderboard, I don't only want to know who is ahead of me but also what bike they rode. It gives me a better idea of my performance. if ahead are all roadies I know chances of me improving are slim...  

[EAIゴジラ]

• Distinct segment crowns for when a Strava rider records a best time for a segment on a single speed or fixed gear bike (as it does with gender).
• Separate segment time breakdowns for single speed and fixed gear bikes separately (as they do with age and weight)
• Single speed freewheel bikes separately from fixed gear bikes.
• Group challenges, stats, and group leaderboards distinct for activities on these gear types (like how e-bike stats are selectively excluded now)

This is an important feature because bikes without gears are their own, popular class and can’t compete with geared bikes. I ride a single speed 55x18 freewheel bike with fast roadies and my wattage and heart rate are way above everyone, the comparison is unfair. This is also important economically because while some can afford a stable of bikes, single speed and fixed gears are usually more affordable, so this feature attributes appropriate glory to people’s efforts who might have otherwise felt Strava is just for rich, carbon aero folk. This feature would bring more people into Strava, since, fixed gear riders especially have their own cool subculture and would use Strava amongst themselves, be seen by all on Strava, and this would connect more people in cycling. These two bike types would not only encourage single-speed and fixed gear groups, events, and group challenges but also provide the first metrics of comparison between geared and single speed and fixed gear bikes, thus encouraging riders of each to perhaps try their favorite segments on the other kind of bike. In this way one person could potentially have three KOMs- completed on a geared bike, completed on a single speed freewheel, and completed on a fixed gear bike. Distinguishing single speed freewheel and fixed gear leaderboards from each other is important too because with a freewheel and brakes I can ride in a road bike peloton safely without rear-ending decelerating riders or pedal striking on turns like a fixed gear rider would, but fixed gear riders (who can’t gain too much momentum downhill) can have training rides together safely, events which I would not be welcomed at. Finally, single-speed or fixed gear specific clubs and group challenges would automatically exclude activities on geared bikes like some features do with ebikes. 

If this feature is implemented it should be retroactive, marking an existing bike and a retired bike as a single speed should automatically re-categorize that bike’s activity history into leaderboards etc. without individually selecting to re-analyze all those activities for the history of the bike.

Here’s an example leaderboard for a segment I completed with roadies on my single speed. The current display, which doesn’t distinguish bike types, belies the feat this was without gears. https://www.strava.com/segments/36546150

[anchskier]

Very few people actually list the specific bike or bike type they are using.  If you broke up the leaderboards by the type of bike used, the leaderboards would be junk.  The data would be so messed up, it would be worthless.  Yes, you might see if you have the KOM among the other 4 people in your area who actually knew how to and bothered to classify their bikes as single speed, but there are likely many others who didn't bother and also over a decade of "old" data that did not even give the option for those who wanted to that you would not be seeing.  

[EAIゴジラ]

Sorry @anchskier but I just disagree, and this change would be consistent with the fairness values which guided the subcategorizations that currently exist. Women and men for example are distinguished by KOM and QOM even though Course Records include them both, and comparisons can be dialed in currently in the data by weight, age, even clubs. That’s all irrelevant or junk for you maybe, but those of us without gears are playing by a whole different set of rules, like electric bikes vs normal bikes as another example. This would be the first time in history that performance across these categories could be tracked—what someone can do on a geared versus ungeared bike—bring many into Strava, create buzz and community, all while merely relying on organizing code that already exists for gear types, genders, and sport types. A lot to possibly gain, little to lose.

[JBW-Florida]

Re: @EAIゴジラ suggestion:

What about recumbents? Why discriminate against them? And what about bikes with fairings, both regular bikes with fairings and things like the Velomobile? And how about the Brompton and other folding bikes... they deserve their own crowns! And how about guys in skinsuits versus tee shirts and floppy shorts? Different crowns for different clothing! I actually got a few KOM's years ago not wearing a helmet. Would that disqualify me... or do I get extra credit?
What's Strava to do when people start asking for all the above? (And they will.)
You need to be thinking about these things because Strava's product team is going to ask you for details on your suggestion!

[EAIゴジラ]

Most of the US anyway lives in cities, where fixed gear and single speed bikes are a huge culture and prominent everywhere. 4/10 bikes I see in chicago have no gears, and you’re dismissing them as equivalent to bikes I see once a year if that. I’m not dismissing them as irrelevant, I’m saying I see more fixed gears and single speeds than I do many things that are already accounted for in statistical analysis on Strava

[JBW-Florida]

KISS

[Sveoho]

Times on a segment should compare with the previous times when you use the exact same bike (if that is what you want).

Also, in general the segment times should be split to what kind of bike that is used (road, gravel, MTB etc). Many segments can be used with different bikes. 

[JoanG]

Good morning,

I find it frustrating to be competing against people who use triathlon bikes because it's clearly not the same sport. In fact, I had a KOM taken, on a segment that I did at 380W, and my competitor had an average of 280W, almost 50% less, still faster than me.

Why not create a new category, like E-bikes that already exists, in order to exclude them from traditional segments? 

Tell me what you think about it ?

[Jan_Mantau]

@JoanG  It's completely within Strava segments rules to use tt bikes, tailwinds, drafting, resting directly before the segment start, using supertuck positions, use a 4 kg bike and whatever else as long it's a bicycle and there's no motor assistence. It's not about power output or who would be the best in an UCI race. Maybe Strava could display the bike type in the leaderboard but as these are neither historically nor now nor in the future setup by everyone and the grey zones between bike types are big it wouldn't mean much.