I don't get the new Strava Waypoints feature.

[Silentvoyager]

It adds a waypoint every time I click on the map. But if I plan a route on a complicated trail network and want to get the route exactly the way I want I need to click on the map a lot. That isn't different from how the route planning worked before. But now it inserts waypoint at every point I clicked at the map. But what's next? 

- I can't rename those waypoints. Names don't stick.

- I can't remove those waypoints because that triggers the reroute. That's not what I want. 

- Waypoints don't propagate to Garmin. That was the main feature I expected.

Basically, these are not true waypoints. They are more like anchor points that Strava calls waypoints. Waypoint is what I want to be notified about during notification. For example Garmin devices allow tracking distance remaining or ETA to the next waypoint. That's not what Strava provides with this update. In fact, as I can tell nothing has really changed other than entering a point by searching for it on the map.

[nicky · Accepted solution]

Hey @Silentvoyager thanks for all the feedback on this! Really appreciate it! You are correct that the first version of these waypoints function more like control points than garmin waypoints / coursepoints. BUT, we're actually working on all of the features you've requested and will ship them soon. 
- Waypoint names will begin sticking sometime in July 
- Waypoint sync to garmin is planned work for late this summer. 
We'll let you know when this stuff is launched! Main point: we hear you, we agree with you, and we're working on everything you've requested!! Thanks for taking the time to write all of this out!

[Atoz]

Hi @nicky 

Thanks for the update. Any chance I can get early access (happy to test and give feedback)? I have a 1,100 mile tour (you can probably see it on my Strava routes already mapped out) starting before the launch date and wanted to add in water points (as course points so they are visible on my head unit) along the route. 

[sebastianlee]

wow thanks for the recording @nicky . that's something i look forward to having. my guess is it would work on Wahoo devices too? and do you have an estimated time that this would be released? just wondering if i should subscribe to RideWithGPS monthly or yearly since they have that feature already.

[nicky]

Hey @sebastianlee We expect this feature to be live for Garmin before the end of September! 

[Silentvoyager]

Hey @nicky, I appreciate your reply. I am curious about how you are going to implement exporting waypoints to Garmin. Here is the potential problem. Making a route on a complicated trail network would require a lot of these anchor points. It isn't enough to simply connect two waypoints in an arbitrary way based on popularity or shortest distance. Often the route has to go the exact way, for example when following a race course or when there is a plan to go through certain Strava segments. However most of these anchor points don't need and should not be waypoints that are exported to Garmin - only selected ones need to be included. In other words, there certainly has to be a distinction between an anchor point and a waypoint - they serve different purposes. Hopefully you can solve that in an elegant and usable way.

Another thing to consider that almost every route editor (including Garmin one) doesn't get right, is that often a route may roundtrip or loop on itself and go through some of these waypoints more than once at different distances into the route. That would require two or more waypoints at the same location but at different distances into the route. For example, consider the race course for Miwok 100K race (https://miwok100k.com/course/). It would be awesome if I could create routes like that in Strava route editor, have them synced to my Garmin device, and have all the waypoints show up during navigation on my Garmin device on the Up Ahead screen (https://support.garmin.com/en-US/?faq=lQMibRoY2I5Y4pP8EXgxv7). If done right, that would be an enormous value for many users like me.

[nicky · Accepted solution]

Hey @Silentvoyager thanks for all this additional detail! We've been thinking a lot about exactly what you're discussing. Another way to say it is, every "course point" is a waypoint, but not every waypoint is a "course point." We are building the feature to account for this. 

Only the waypoints that you indicate (imagine a "send to device" toggle or check box) will be sent to your Garmin as "course points" that appear in the "up ahead menu." 

Thanks also for mentioning the course points that are on both the out and the back sections of a route. This is definitely not an easy problem to solve because there are two strings of GPS data that sit on top of one another but are separate. We can do some thinking about that as we build the nitty gritty parts of the feature. 

Really appreciate your thorough responses. The feature is on it's way! 

[Silentvoyager]

Also, I should add that when a route is exported (e.g. to GPX), waypoints aren't included there either.
This feature has zero utility for me as a trail runner.

What I'd really like to see is managing used defined waypoints for specific places on the map (and not just every anchor point that click on the map) and producing them in the generated route. For example, when syncing to Garmin waypoints should appear as Garmin course points. Think about the following case: defining checkpoints or aid stations on a race course.