Solo vs Group KoM

[lopey66]

This been a request over many years and controversial, in a group riders can go faster and take turns to push the pace as solo riders have only themselves and their bikes.

Here is the complication is it a Solo KOM when a group breaks the KOM on a timeline !!

The slowest rider of the Group uploads their ride and sets a new Time and sets the KOM(Solo), half an hour later other riders upload theirs and get the KOM(group) as there is more than one rider, as riders upload, the KOM time may change as I have seen this happen and number of people get the KOM on their activity achievements. Ideally once a group KOM (>1+) second rider uploads the first rider activity achievements is reprocessed for solo & group KOM identity.

What I would like to see is on the segment leaderboard an additional column(subscriber feature) of solo so that you can filter on groups or solo.

There is another feature which I see as Group Sprint, I will raise that as a separate post.

[susuncorda]

The other day I was notified that I lost a KOM/RC.
It was on this segment: https://www.strava.com/segments/10463534

What happened is that a race passed by there and then it will NEVER EVER be an entertaining and "possible" challenge for cyclists who ride alone every week in this area.

Now it is impossible (unless you are Remco Evenepoel) to get a top 10 position in this segment, there is no point in using Strava if you were interested in leaderboards for motivation.

[ChrisBerry]

The biggest problem with this idea is that it assumes everyone in a group will be recording and posting on Strava. 

[lopey66]

KoM is defined as who has the fastest time, not necessarily who crossed the end of the KoM segment first, a rider who is at the back of a group as they start the segment last and they only have to finish near the front and will tend to get the KOM as they could have up to 5 secs, so in some cases its where you start the segment in a group.

[anchskier]

Are you suggesting a new feature?  I don't see a suggestion, just a description of what a KOM already is.  Not sure if you may have submitted this before completing the post?

[anchskier]

To try to do anything related to a "group" ride versus a "solo" ride, you would first have to find some way to accurately and reliably identify if a ride was a "group" or "solo".  Currently, there is no such way.  The existing Strava program is not very good at identifying them, so definitely can't be relied on.  People can't be relied on to identify their rides as "group" or "solo", heck, most can't be bothered to identify what bike they were using.  Until Strava finds some method to accurately identify a "group" ride, I don't think there is going to be any good, usable metrics associated with "group" rides implemented.

[lopey66]

I deliberately created a separate post for a Group Sprint KoM (someone has merged the post without my permission) as it has nothing to do with "Solo vs Group KOM" as its a group of riders and they sprint to cross the finish line, so it is about who crosses the end of the segment first, as solo is an individual effort and not a group effort !!

[lopey66]

Your incorrect, strava does very well in identifying group rides, part of it comes riding the same segments and I am talking about segments specifically was it a Solo or Group and not a group ride, also I have been using the strava API for some years and built my own pages. Segments contain the Start Date/Time, elapsed time & moving times. In terms of segment matching, strava matches the start & end points of segment and certain points along the segment, people who use smart recording instead of 1 second recordings tend to have less segments matched as less gps points are stored which means your nearest point recorded to start or end is too far away to be matched as there is no interpolation between points in the activity as that would have to be done.

Please note strava does not provide the data, you do and some of the head units / mobile phones are the cause for poor quality GPS data and as they say garbage in garbage out.

[anchskier]

I totally disagree.  Strava does NOT do a good job of identifying a solo or group effort.  I get tagged as riding "with" people all the time that I never even saw on the trails but just happen to have ridden the same areas around the same time.  In races, I get tagged as riding as a "group", but am either off the front by myself or following at enough distance that I would not be gaining any advantage of the others around me.  Would you claim that someone who is separated from the others in a race still get tagged as part of the "group"?  How would all that work out?  

I can understand what you are asking for and I see some value in it, but we definitely have different opinions on how effective the technology is currently at actually being able to accurately achieve it.  For me, if you tried to do something with their current programming, you would have a data set with so many mistakes it would make it worthless.  

[lopey66]

If you understand I want to see a solo definition as currently all KOM's are in one bucket and then they are held by riders in a group. As an example last night I rode with my friends, over 12km lap I average 225 watts at 35.6kmh solo, my friend rode at 227watts at 43kmh and he sat at very back until the end and then sprinted and the others in the group and separately again some riders in the group got dropped and part of their segment effort was grouped and make their effort grouped not solo.

Just because strava is tagging you as part of group, that is more a social media setting as people want that(a separate feature that should be developed further), you are a competitor and I can read that in your replies, the metrics in defining a group or solo have not been set and you are using the activities example is incorrect.

Segments would have a much higher stringent requirement on what a gap distance(or time) between riders, so as an example in your example your segment effort would match as a solo if it was 25 metres apart at 40 kmh / 24.5 mph for the whole of the segment.

Ant+ is communication standard, it records down to 1 sec, at speeds of 32kmh or 20mph your recording at 9 metres per second, depending on the speed so we are looking at range of 5-13 metres between points. 

In the real world aerodynamic drag has an impact the UCI is being lobbied to set distances between motos/cars and TT riders in events as there has been blatant abuse.